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thread What do you think of Africa ? - vivek - 2002-06-20
last replythread What do you think of Africa ? - Agner Fog - 2002-06-21
replythread What do you think of Africa ? - vivek - 2002-06-21
last replythread What do you think of Africa ? - Agner Fog - 2002-06-23
last replythread What do you think of Africa ? - vivek - 2002-07-17
last replythread Japan - Agner Fog - 2002-07-18
last reply What do you think of Africa ? - vivek - 2002-07-18
last replythread What do you think of Africa ? - Frederick - 2005-05-08
last reply What do you think of Africa ? - Agner - 2005-05-10
 
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: vivek Date: 2002-06-20 19:43
Nowhere in the predictions is any mention of Africa. I wonder whats the situation with this continent. Do you think Africa is moving in the kalyptic direction (like everyone else) ..
   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: Agner Fog Date: 2002-06-21 07:29
vivek wrote:
Do you think Africa is moving in the kalyptic direction (like everyone else) ..
Historically, Subsaharan Africa has been more kalyptic than precolonial America possibly because of the dense vegatation and lack of efficient transportation means. While the original Americans could travel far and make wars and build large empires, I think that the Africans could travel less far; and though they fought many wars, it was local wars on a relatively smaller scale, so kingdoms never grew into large empires. The inhabitants of Europe and Asia had horses and could therefore conquer even larger areas.

The fact that Africans were more kalyptic than native Americans explains why they were easier enslaved. And that, ironically, saved them from genocide.

Today, poverty and poor education means higher population growth. But I see hardly any signs of imperialism from the native Africans. The former colonial powers still have a strong influence through political and commercial interests, and the Africans are very dependent on development aid. Large-scale wars would not be possible in Africa today because the rich countries in Europe and elsewhere have strong interests in intervening and creating stability.

The Africans and the former colonial powers share a strong interest in developing the continent. And though a lot of the aid is wasted to corruption and poor administration on both sides, the development is going pretty fast in the direction of Western democratic values and stability. Education is still lacking somewhat behind, but there is a lot of progress in this respect also.

So while Europe is seeing a regal wave in these years due to immigration and North America sees an unprecedented level of panic over terrorism, the African continent is actually quite kalyptic and will continue to be so for many years.

   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: vivek Date: 2002-06-21 17:04
If i understand the term "kalyptic" correctly, it implies more freedom for the individual. In this situation individual freedom is valued more than the country/group/tribe.
To my mind, it appears Africa is a place where the rule is "every man/woman for himself". When is the meaning of individual freedom in the "law of the jungle" ? If there are no laws or rules (or if these are not enforced) constraining individuals then it comes close to the African situation. If the world is going to be more kalyptic in the new millenium, does it mean its going to be more like Africa ?
   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: Agner Fog Date: 2002-06-23 13:58
vivek wrote:
If i understand the term "kalyptic" correctly, it implies more freedom for the individual. In this situation individual freedom is valued more than the country/group/tribe.
Right.
To my mind, it appears Africa is a place where the rule is "every man/woman for himself". When is the meaning of individual freedom in the "law of the jungle" ?
It doesn't mean total anarchy, because protection of the interests of the individual also means protecting the individual against exploitation from other individuals and from the state.
   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: vivek Date: 2002-07-17 00:18
Japan appears to be kalyptic because they dont have an army {they rely on the US} , they show very little interest in world affairs . There is tremendous amount of competition in education and jobs.
On the other hand, its hard to call the Japanese culture as very individualist. Everyone in the companies works together. There is high amount of teamwork . thats the reason they were so succesful in dominating the world in Electronics.
Is there any racism in Japan ? Not in Hong Kong where you will find people from several backgrounds working together without conflict.

If we compare this to Africa, the people there are highly individualistic. Everyone has high needs and hence there is so much conflict. Hardly any sign of work-culture. Lots of countries in Africa gained independence recently. Lots of indians and pakistanis got kicked out of Uganda because too many Africans felt that these guys were controlling the economy that should be controlled by the natives. To form countries/governments you need to have at least some form of co-operation and less individualism. Africa is slowly moving in the regal direction.

Fewer and fewer americans are getting interested in national politics. They are becoming too busy earning their daily bread.

If we put all this together it seems to me the whole world is getting less individualistic.

   
Japan
Author: Agner Fog Date: 2002-07-18 09:15
As written in my book, the Japanese have a strong self-control. And this is not a virtue that the Africans are famous for. The Japanese self-control stems from their religion. And, as you will know, religion changes more slowly than other aspects of culture.

Ancient animism still has a strong foothold in Africa despite heavy influence from Christianity and Islam. Many Africans still sacrifice to ancient spirits although they also pray to God.

The difference in r/k level between Japan and Africa is smaller than the differences in r/k level within Africa, while other cultural aspects are very different: religion, natural ressources, population density, economy, urbanization, industry. Thus, the r/k level is not the prime factor I would look at for explaining differences between African and Japanese 'national characters'.

Of course there is xenophobia in Africa when there is so much poverty and competition for jobs. But the xenophobia is not worse than in Europe. And the loyalties there are volatile and can quickly change to whatever is more advantageous. So I don't see Africa as getting more regal. The frequency of war in Africa is declining.

I don't really understand your point about America, but the USA has certainly become more regal and imperialistic after Sept. 11.

Hope this clarifies your questions..

   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: vivek Date: 2002-07-18 20:14
It seems to me that for kalyptization to take place , the environment is a very important
variable. If there is plenty of food and resources, no external threats (i.e. big threats where it doesn't male sense to go it alone) .... there will be room for everyone to
be themselves and express their individuality/uniqueness.
On the other hand , if there is shortage of resources due to expanding popluation pressures
where it becomes clear that unless we cooperate no one will survive .. it forces regalization.

It could be that tropical Africa was a very rich continent with low population many centuries
ago and this lead to kalyptization. But the situation there has changed drastically.. now Africa has a very high population and low natural resources. What was once good to have has now become an obstacle. IMO the high rate of poverty and joblessness will slowly lead to regalization.

In Japan, i think its just the opposite story. Probably in pre-historic times it was very
cold and the inhospitable climate fostered cooperation and regalization to a high degree.
This regalization (all people working in cooperation, no one asserting individual differences etc)has made sure that all people survived through the hard times. That also explains the tremendous success of Japan in economy. But now there is plenty in Japan.. so i think Japan will gradually loosen up and become more kalyptic. (provided it stays rich)

I also think that extreme kalyptization does not foster innovation. In an extremely kalyptic
climate i expect to find lots of self-centered individuals . Although there will be tons of creative individuals, no one has time to recognize any other persons innovative or creative ability. Even if there was innovation , it will die because no one took notice of it. I think the laws of Newton are so well known because there were enough people who showed an interest in what Newton did.

   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author:  Date: 2005-05-08 20:15
Sorry, but I had to chuckle a bit with I read the part about foreign nations creating stability. Which African nations are stable? The instability of most African countries can be blamed squarely on Africans who take power, sell out to foreign money, enrich themselves and leave everybody else as they were. Furthermore the continent will NEVER be stable until the various religious factions can get along, and until tribalism is less important than nationalism, and until Africans stand up and demand democracy. If foreign influence can be blamed for anything, it is trying to drag people kicking and screaming out of the darkness in which they choose to live.

Frederick homepage.mac.com/f.e.pitts/

   
What do you think of Africa ?
Author: Agner Date: 2005-05-10 08:52
I wrote that foreign nations have an interest in creating stability in Africa. That is not the same as saying that Africa is stable. There are many obstacles, like corruption, poor democracy and poor education.

Africa definitely has fewer international wars than Europe had when we were at the same level of economic and democratic development. Civil wars is something else, according to the r/k theory.